Episode 148: How To Know If The Membership Model Will Work For You with Tim Wright
learn about the membership model
Episode 148

How To Know If The Membership Model Will Work For You with Tim Wright

Podcast Guest

Tim Wright




"Membership and patronage models — where supporters sign up to give on a regular basis in return for services and content — are an increasingly popular way for creatives to generate a regular income stream."

Normally, we'd introduce you to Tim as our special guest on today's episode of the podcast.

But here's the thing…

It wouldn't be entirely accurate to call Tim our guest on today's show.

You see, Tim is actually the host of the XpoNorth Podcast – which is devoted entirely to helping artists, musicians, and other creative professionals earn a living doing what they love.

Tim recently invited Eric — our Founder & CEO — onto his show to talk about how creative workers can use the membership model to create stable and predictable income streams that support both their lives and work.

We had such an engaging discussion that we asked Tim if we could share our conversation with you here.

Thankfully, he said yes! 😀

As you listen to this episode, you'll hear Tim ask a lot of thought-provoking questions that helped Eric reflect on the trends and patterns he's seen in his work with thousands of successful online entrepreneurs over the past 10+ years.

We cover some important topics like:

  • The easiest ways for you to create a paid membership or community
  • How to see value in your creative work (and actually put a price tag on it)
  • The biggest pitfalls and traps you should avoid when getting started
  • And much more!

If you've ever wondered if it was actually possible for you to create an online income stream around your creative work, this episode is for you.


2:09 The story of how, when, & why Eric became an entrepreneur
4:32 How to create a paid membership or community using WordPress
6:48 How to choose the right tools for your online membership or subscription
11:11 The fundamentals of building a membership that people will actually pay for
14:00 One of the most critical things to be aware of when running a membership
19:45 The macro view of creating an engaging membership
24:15 A look at recurring revenue, creating stable income streams, and the value of building a community
35:41 Examining some real-life examples of creative membership sites

Full Transcript

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“If you were advising somebody that was a creative to some description that was thinking about setting up some kind of patronage model, beyond this ability of reassuring yourself that you can consistently produce content of value that will be useful to your community, what are the key considerations do you think that a creative needs to think about when they’re entering into this space?”

Tim: Eric, great to speak to you. I really appreciate you taking the time to have a chat with XpoNorth about MemberMouse. Tell me a little bit about the origins. What made you think about developing something like MemberMouse and how you went about it?

Eric: Yeah, sure. First of all, thank you so much for having me on this. It’s a pleasure to be here. I’m happy to talk about that. My background is in software engineering, and right out of college, I started consulting. Quickly I realized looking around me, the guys who’d been there for 20 years that that wasn’t the path that I was interested in, so I started looking for different business opportunities. I ultimately ended up building an online course that I was selling with a couple of guys. It didn’t end up really making any money, but what I did learn from that is basically the ins and outs of the basics of Internet marketing.

Now, at some point with that product, we needed a membership portal. This was back in 2009. And so, I started looking around for different solutions and I couldn’t find anything that really met the needs that I had. And so, I basically built something myself since I had the capability to do that. Ultimately what ended up happening is people started asking about this membership software that I built rather than the eCommerce product that I was… Sorry. Rather than the e-book course that I was selling. For a little bit, I resisted that. I was like, “No, guys. I’m not running a software company. This isn’t for sale.” But ultimately, I got the message and I was like, “Okay. Well, people are clearly asking this of me, so I’ll do it right.”

And so, I basically started, made a commitment at that point to build a membership software and started the design process, the whole requirements gathering, etc., etc. And then within a year or so I had something that was a kind of minimum viable product for MemberMouse.

Tim: Okay. So, it was really answering your own initial needs. You hadn’t looked out there and thought. “There is a big market for membership.” It was just something that met your individual needs, and then other people came to you and said, “This is something we’d like to use ourselves.”

Eric: Exactly.

Tim: Essentially, what sort of form does it take? It’s a plugin, or is it a standalone site? Explain to our listeners how MemberMouse specifically answers that membership need.

Eric: Sure. MemberMouse is a plugin for WordPress. So, basically, any WordPress site can be become a membership site using our plugin. Now, plugin is like a nondescript word. You can’t really get much information from a plugin. I mean, there’s plugins that are super tiny and do one little thing, and then there’s plugins like ours, which is essentially eCommerce software. Myself and my CTO, we were both enterprise level architects prior to working at MemberMouse. It’s a very sophisticated, large software application that essentially transforms any WordPress site into a super high-powered eCommerce and membership portal.

One of the blessings that we had early on when we first started the product is we actually got a lot of high-volume Internet marketers interested in using it. The blessing there was that they were willing to kick the tires and say, “Hey, these are the things that we need to actually make a difference in our business. These are the things that are going to help us make more money, decrease cost, automate the business, things like that.” In essence, in working with those people and responding to the needs of people who are on the forefront of these best practice strategies, we basically ended up building all of that into the software from a very early period. We can talk more about this later, if you want, but that’s really one of the things that really sets MemberMouse apart from say other WordPress plugins that provide membership features.

Tim: And there are other membership options as well in as much as some people have completely managed sites, where you’re using their site.

Eric: Exactly.

Tim: Rather than have something that’s driven through your own site. Do you think there are advantages to the MemberMouse approach from some of these other approaches?

Eric: Of course, but it’s all dependent upon where the person’s at. The tool for the job is really about what you’re looking to build. When anybody comes to talk to me, and is inquiring basically about what’s going to be the best thing for them to accomplish the goals they’re looking to do, it’s not an immediate answer in my mind that MemberMouse is for them.

Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Eric: I think that when people are just getting started, there’s a lot more important things to focus on than the heavy technology that MemberMouse can provide. There’s kind of like a proving ground for your idea that I think people should go through before they start really getting too bogged down in the technical implementation of a site. This is a big mistake I think a lot of people make is, they have an idea and they look at what other people are doing, and then they just try to copy what other people are doing, rather than understand that a membership site is people are paying you and sometimes paying you on a recurring basis.

The thing that ultimately makes that successful is your content. And so, the thing that people often skip over is making sure A, that they know what they’re going to sell to people, and B, that they can actually do it in a consistent manner and they feel comfortable with that. And so, things like Patreon, and I don’t know the other ones off the top of my head, but things like that, where the functionality is super watered down, it’s essentially you can just post content and accept payments. I mean, there’s more features than that but that’s the essence.

Tim: That’s the fundamentals of it.

Eric: That’s a great place to start because it gets your muscle, your content creation muscle moving. And also, one of the biggest factors of the success or failure of a site is making that connection with your audience. So, the sooner that you can put something in front of an audience and get feedback and respond to that feedback, the better. That’s why I like Patreon for like… People are super in the beginning. They haven’t done anything yet. It’s great because they don’t have to worry about the technology. They just put something up. And the thing is, they might realize in a week, “I can’t do this.” In that case, they haven’t put a lot of work into building something full-fledged. Really, MemberMouse comes into the picture when you’ve had some success.

Tim: It’s got that richer functionality, it can do more for you, and you can apply that more effectively when you understand your marketplace a little bit better. Yeah?

Eric: Exactly.

Tim: Okay. That’s a really interesting one. I think your point about this having sufficient self-awareness, to know that you are going to have to keep producing content is something that people sometimes don’t necessarily figure out early enough. They think, “Hey, I can produce some stuff, and I do it reasonably often.” But being consistent about that is a habit that a lot of people I think, come to understand is tougher than they think.

Eric: Well, I mean, consistency is really the fundamental bedrock of success in anything, whether it’s learning to play an instrument, or building a membership site. And so, if you’re not willing, if you don’t have the capability or the willingness to make that commitment of consistency, then you’re pretty much just asking for a handout from people.

Tim: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Now in terms of the sort of breadth of functionality that MemberMouse can offer, that differentiates it from some of these simpler offerings. Give us an idea of the types of ways that people will be making use of this. Different people will be emphasizing different aspects of it. But what are some of the key things that you think MemberMouse offers in that functionality area?

Eric: Sure. Well, there’s the fundamentals basically, which pretty much any membership plugin is going to have because it is essentially the fundamentals of membership sites. And that is, you can create something, a product where people can buy. You can set a price. With MemberMouse, you have a large amount of flexibility in terms of your pricing that you can set one-time purchase products, payment plan products, recurring pricing, free trials, paid trials. Anything you need to create. And then once you have something that you can create that people can buy, the next part is, what do they get when they buy something? What do they get when they pay you that money?

So, being able to associate and have a paywall for controlling access to content based on what’s purchased, this is something else that MemberMouse does. We have a lot of flexibility in terms of how we enable people to do that, which makes it easier to set up and also easy to maintain over time. There’s two different aspects that I look at in terms of running a membership business. One is creating it, getting your starting point, and the next is maintenance and adjusting. I would say most of the membership plugins that offer service will allow you to set it up well. But not all of them do a good job of like, “Oh, I need to make an adjustment later on in the future. I learned that actually this pricing might work better.” Or, “I want to add this special promotion or things like this.”

MemberMouse has a lot of flexibility in terms of adjusting to your business needs. And that’s one of the main things that it does, it gives you enough flexibility so that it’s not dictating how you should run your business. It’s able to help you implement the business strategies that you want to do. So, those fundamentals are there, being able to set up products with certain pricing, being able to grant access to content based on what’s been purchased. And of course, that comes along with obviously being able to log in, log out. It comes with the capability to have upsell functionality. I apologize to anybody because I’m throwing out maybe a lot of industry terms here. I don’t know how familiar people are, but-

Tim: We can live with some of that, I think. If people got questions about it, we’ll pick up on those questions.

Eric: Sure. One of the critical things of running a membership site to be aware of is what’s called lifetime customer value. It’s the value of a customer that pays you over time. If you have a $10-month subscription, and the person’s with you for four months, they have a $40 lifetime customer value. Now, when you get a lot of members, you start to see trends, and you start to see, “Oh, my average lifetime customer value is around $50.” That’s a very important number to know, because it helps you understand how much you can spend to acquire that customer and advertising. It gives you a metric so that you can understand if your strategies are helping to improve the retention, the amount of time that people are sticking with you, or it’s decreasing it.

And also, the people who are most likely to spend money with you are people who’ve already paid you for something. And so, we’ve all experienced this, what’s called an upsell process. You buy something, and then immediately on the following page, they say, “Hey, accept this one time offer for upgrading to this for 20% off or whatever.” And so, that’s a critical strategy that has proven to be very successful. And so, MemberMouse allows you to do that. The trade upsell chains, so you can maximize the revenue you’re receiving from the customer.

Now, that’s one angle to put it, and I don’t want to sound like we’re trying to squeeze money out of people. That’s the business angle. The other angle is the intention behind this should be that, hey, you recognize that this customer likes this thing. Let me show them some other things that are relevant that they may also like. So, there’s just two different perspectives on that.

Tim: There is, and it’s an interesting one because clearly the context that we’re having in this discussion is in the application of this type of approach for particularly creatives. I know a lot of creatives can get a little bit twitchy when it comes to seeing patrons and backers and supporters as customers. There is certainly that other way of looking at it and saying you’re actually providing them with value. And if you understand the things that they like, it’s useful for you as the creative to understand what your audience is appreciating. But it’s good for you to be able to give them the things that they want because that’s the way that conversation works.

Eric: Yeah. I recently went through this on my own. I compose music and I’ve been doing that since I was 14 years old. And so, end of last year, I started a Patreon for my music. I went through the whole thing. Even though membermouse.com is a membership site, I approach it as a business and I feel super comfortable putting a price on things because I understand the value and the exchange. When it came to setting up my Patreon I was like, “I’ll charge people $1 but it’s optional. Everything’s going to be for free. They can pay if they want but everything’s for free.”

It’s evolved over time. It basically became a thing where I had to feel comfortable. Hey, again, like making sure that I was going to be consistent in producing content for this thing such that people were getting value, and that there was a value to it that as an artist, it exposes the vulnerabilities that I have. I’m almost a different person when I’m working with music than I am when I’m working with software in business. Because it’s a much more personal process, and I’m super critical. I think artists can maybe resonate with this. I’m super critical of my own art. And so, I’m like, “Why would anybody pay for this? This is crap.” Or, “It’s too simple.” Or, “It’s not like my favorite artist. I need to aspire to be like that person. Once I’m that person then it’s valuable.”

It’s like there’s all these self-critical things that come into the mix. But that’s one of the things that I love about working with music or art is it’s such a great teacher in that way. It helps me learn and practice being human and being vulnerable. There is an exchange that’s valid, I think for art. We have tons of creatives who use MemberMouse. I’ve had conversations with a number of them about this very topic about the pricing. It’s always a personal journey and evolution. You have to start. My advice is always, “Start where you feel comfortable.” Because when it’s time to make a change, it will happen on its own. If you start with something that you don’t feel comfortable with, then it may be that very thing that trips you up and keeps you from moving forward.

Tim: Yeah. Now you said that you’ve got a lot of creatives that are using this. This model of membership model, it’s something that’s emerging more and more, I seem to find and hence us doing this series of blogs and pods on the subject. How have you found that has changed and grown in the time that you’ve had MemberMouse?

Eric: Well, I don’t necessarily have a full perspective be able to answer that question exactly, because I just don’t know how it was before and how it is now. But what I can say is, there’s a clear movement of people who are interested in quality over quantity in terms of the audience they’re serving. I specifically see this with artists that their main intention may not be to make money. Their main intention may be, “Look, I just want a way to connect with my audience and have a way when just like I’m not on stage, or I’m not doing an event, where I can continue that conversation with people.”

As a result, there’s a win-win situation there. Their fans get to continue to connect with them and learn from them, and they get the benefit of that community aspect. Artists journey can sometimes be lonely. So, it’s nice to have that group that you can share things with and get feedback from on a consistent basis and not just like, have that two weeks of nothing and then you do a show and it’s like super energizing, then you go away from that, and you’re like, there’s crickets and it’s silent.

So, we have all sorts of people, photographers, guitarists, who sell guitar lessons, people who teach composition, people who teach drawing, people who teach how to do electronic music production, nail art. And a composer who actually, a television and film composer, who created his own music library so that he can… All of these things, personally, again a personal perspective, but I think I’m not in a minority here. I think that the skills that we develop as artists are valuable. It’s not just about a completed piece of work that it’s about. The completed piece of work is what we strive to do that’s our journey, but the byproducts of everything that we’ve learned along the way that’s valuable to people. People are wanting to learn to write music. People are wanting to learn to draw, play guitar, all of these things.

The thing is, something that was important for me to hear when I first started podcasting, because I was like, again thinking to myself, “Well, there’s so much podcasts out there. What do I have to say that hasn’t already been said?” Someone said to me at that point, which was really valuable is, “There aren’t any new messages, just new messengers.” And that resonated with me because it’s like, yeah, 10 people could say the same thing, but 50 people are going to resonate with one guy, and 50 are going to resonate with the other guy. There’s an audience for everybody. It’s your personality that is super unique. Even though you may be saying the same thing and teaching something, there’s always room for more people to come in and do the teaching.

Tim: That I guess is the essence of what’s been transformative about digital technologies and the crowd economy or generally. Highly distributed groups can come together and find a viable audience because we have this ability to reach so much further and so much more widely. Yeah, I think you’re absolutely spot on. I guess the other thing for a lot of creatives is sometimes it’s a long time between drinks. Because the production process of whatever creative endeavor you’re involved in can sometimes be extended.

It’s been a perennial problem for creatives, that ability to build in some kind of more stable income streams. These types of models that we have here with membership and patronage, can actually help with that by allowing us between major masterpieces, if you will, maintain some engagement that will create value for the audience, but will also create a revenue for you as well.

Eric: Yeah. It creates revenue, it also creates emotional support and community. I’m a patron of a number of people on Patreon. It’s a pleasure to be a part of their journey and to hear the struggles that they go through and to see their art. The commonality between all these people is the gratitude that they feel for the community of people that give them that consistency of support, and fuel them on. The thing is, I’ve commissioned some of these people to do specific work and I’m sure that that’s not an uncommon thing. Like this community, yes, it comes together, and they may be paying you $1 or $5, whatever a month to support your work and get access to behind the scenes content, etc., etc. But then the more people are exposed to your work, the more doors are there for your next job. So, I think it’s an amazing thing.

Tim: Yeah. It’s interesting that you are a user of and engage with Patreon. It’s great that you’re agnostic about these things. But if you were advising somebody that was a creative to some description that was thinking about setting up some kind of patronage model, beyond this ability of reassuring yourself that you can consistently produce content of value that will be useful to your community, what are the key considerations do you think that a creative needs to think about when they’re entering into this space? What are the key things that in your mind make the more successful ones and the less successful one?

Eric: Well, I mean, I don’t think it’s that much more than that. I think the thing is, the mistake is to make it more than that. The mistake happens when you think it’s about the technology or the design. I’ve seen people spend $20,000 on a site. I’ve seen people spend $20,000 on a site and never launch it for two years. Obviously, that wasn’t a success. I’ve seen people spend $20,000 on a site, super good design, launch it and not get over 50 members. And I’ve seen people spend less than $500 on a site, launch it, and within six months have 1000 members.

So, from what I see the common… It’s never about the tools. It’s never about the technology. It’s just like in music like every guitarist has a guitar, but what’s the differentiator between someone who has a certain amount of success and someone who has maybe less? It’s not the tool. It’s always about what you’re bringing to the table. The more that you can. It’s about at wanting comfortable with this process, because I think when you commit to doing something consistently, you have to make it a part of your life. It’s about learning to bring a different eye and perspective to your own life. Because byproducts, things that you’re so used to doing, that are habitual to you are actually content.

You may just fiddle around on the piano or doodle, and you don’t think that there’s much value in that. But if you record that video, there’s tons of people who would be interested in that. It’s kind of like being able to step a little bit away of what’s so common to you, and be able to have an open mind to that, and it may be uncommon to other people and other people may be interested. So, you recognize these opportunities, and you develop a system of capturing that. For me, it was really important to make sure that it’s easy for me to sit down and start composing, and also my camera is set up all the time. Because the more that you have to set up, the more that you have to put out in order to do something, the more of a barrier there’s going to be and then you won’t do it.

And so, I know that people will struggle with this perspective that, “Don’t worry about the technology. It will happen on its own.” I’ve been doing this for 10 years and I’ve seen thousands of people start the journey and the journey be successful or not successful, and this is just what I come away with, it’s always about what you’re bringing to the table. To me, it’s technology will let you know when it needs to be adjusted and when it needs to be upgraded.

For a basic beginner I would say, “The first and best step is to get yourself out there with the minimum friction possible.” That’s why personally I chose Patreon. Obviously, I can build a MemberMouse membership site, but it’s overkill for me at this point for that type of adventure. I didn’t want to worry about the technology because that would have been something that gets in the way of me now. When that gets to a certain point, I will definitely switch it over. Because then I’ll have so many more options on how I can continue that. But it’s like, you don’t put the cart before the horse. And again, I apologize that that’s a little bit nebulous as an answer.

Tim: No, no. It’s great. I like it. Listen, give us some of the practicals of MemberMouse. What is the sort of pricing model? How can we take payments? What are the options that you get with MemberMouse?

Eric: The entry level at MemberMouse is 20 bucks a month. It’s actually $19.95 a month, a 14-day free trial. The thing is, the way that we currently have it set up is that probably like 95% of the features are available on the starter plan. Our philosophy is that we want people to grow with MemberMouse. One of the biggest pain points can be is if you start with a software and you need to switch to something else because you’ve outgrown it. A lot of people come to MemberMouse when they’ve chosen another solution and they have success. And then they start hitting the limitations of that particular tool that they chose. MemberMouse can handle, we have customers right now doing millions upon millions of dollars a year in transactions and also having 200,000 active members on their site.

The thing is, the way I look at it is like a membership site is like a seafaring vessel. Some are better constructed than others. Now, if you’re only going to try and sail one person across the ocean, pretty much any vessel will do. But the more weight you put on it, the more you want to carry, the more that the cracks will start to show in a poorly designed thing. And that’s the difference between MemberMouse and other things. Because MemberMouse is truly been tested from the very beginning with high volume sites. If you’re just planning on only having 100 members or less, you can literally use anything. It doesn’t matter.

Sure, MemberMouse can do maybe something better, but at that point it’s like six, whatever the half dozen the other thing phrase is.

Tim: Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Eric: Exactly, that thing. It doesn’t matter. But if you’re going to have 500 members, well now, because there are unforeseen things like as a membership site grows, there are maintenance tasks that need to be done. I mean, you don’t think about these things but you’re taking subscription payments. A lot of subscription payments get declined every month because of cards. Now, if the software doesn’t have an automated way to handle that, in order for you to get paid, you’re going to have to be getting on the phone, calling people trying to get them to pay you. And of course, that’s a large job. MemberMouse handles that. It’s automated.

And so, many other things are automated and support the growth of the business, because revenue ultimately is a result of income minus expenses. And so, if you can decrease expenses, that’s just as good as profit. MemberMouse focuses on both of those things, giving you tools to help you increase revenue, like our advanced Reporting Suite, all sorts of charts and graphs and things to look at your data and make strategic assessments on what you need to do to increase your numbers, etc., etc.

Of course, again, this is all stuff that you’re definitely not going to want to be thinking about when you’re just getting Started. But it is stuff that you want to be able to do once you get to a certain level of success. If you start with somebody who doesn’t do that and you have to switch, switching is the biggest expense you can ever have. You don’t want to have to.

Tim: It’s interesting. You preempted me there, because I was going to ask you about metrics. But clearly, you’ve got all of that back-end analytics and metrics covered. You get the reporting, you get insight, and those are things that can be tremendously useful.

Eric: Yeah, it’s essential at a certain point. Like I was saying before, lifetime customer value is a super valuable number, but it’s really hard to calculate unless you’re using MemberMouse, because it calculates it for you. People try to do it with Google Analytics, but Google Analytics just because of the nature of how it functions, it’s tracking things through a particular script that’s inserted on the page. It can miss things. It doesn’t necessarily catch every sale. So, your numbers aren’t going to be exactly on, but MemberMouse is the point of sale. It’s collecting all the money. So, it knows, “Okay, where did this referral come from and how much did they pay?”

You can literally do things where you can know you can be having advertising going on Google or Facebook and broken down by ads, and you can literally see in our reports which ad is outperforming the other. Therefore, you then know, “Okay. Let me just put all my money in this ad because this one’s performing the best and bringing me the best customers.” So, yeah, I mean it’s super powerful.

Tim: That’s fantastic. Now listen, we were talking the other day and you were mentioning some examples of people that are using MemberMouse already. Are there any others that you can remember and share with the listeners now?

Eric: Yeah. One that comes to mind is artofcomposing.com. This guy’s a composer. And so, of course he has things outside of this membership site where he’s doing his composition but he created this site where he allows the members to make real progress and their ability to compose music. He teaches a music theory and how to create music. And so, that’s something that it’s actually pretty successful. And so, he has a stream of income going with that. Activemelody.com is run by a guitarist and enthusiast named Brian, and he teaches his members guitar lessons with a focus on improvisation, lead guitar, rhythm guitar fills. That’s a really cool site.

Tim: I’m going to sign up for that myself, I think.

Eric: Pencil Kings is a great site. Mitch Bowler did an amazing job on the site and he teaches people. It’s an online education and community center where he helps artists learn to draw, paint, do graphic design, with the aim of helping them improve their skills and careers.

Tim: There was one that I remember you mentioned is BassGorilla, I think.

Eric: Oh, yeah. BassGorilla is another amazing site. He actually sold that business last year. But it’s an online membership site that teaches its community specific electronic music production techniques. They bring together eager audio producers with some of the world’s best electronic musicians and DJs. If you’re into electronic bass music, it’s pretty much the place that you want to go to learn.

Tim: I think these are interesting, because people that are perhaps primarily let’s say in this case, a music producer, finding a way of using their skills and expertise to a slightly different audience, and finding opportunities to derive revenue from that. Which is the point that you were making earlier about the stepping away from the creative process enough to understand where there’s value in it in different ways of-

Eric: It’s a byproduct. People are interested in the byproducts of your life. Basically, like put a camera on, do what you normally do, throw it up on Patreon or any site where you can just test it out. Throw it up on YouTube. I mean, you don’t have to start testing payment right away, just get feedback from the audience, see what people latch on to, see what they’re interested in. Because you’re already spending your days doing something, and people are interested. All you have to do is… I was thinking to myself the other day, because I’ve been shooting videos about my composition while I’m writing music, and I’m like, “Okay. This is pretty much what I do, except I basically have to learn to talk to myself out loud.”

Tim: Provide that commentary simultaneously. Great stuff. Listen, Eric. I could talk to you all day about this stuff. There’s so much more that we could cover. But it would be good to point people in the direction of MemberMouse so they can find out more about it if they want to engage in it. But where do you think MemberMouse is going to go over the next few years? Where do you want to take it?

Eric: Well, I mean, we again are looking at the people who are using it. Obviously, we have a lot of customers who are straight customers, but we’ve also developed a huge developer community, people who are using our product and they’re basically referring clients to us. Because clients come to them saying, “Hey, I want to build this thing.” And then the developer says, “Oh, okay. I’m going to use MemberMouse to do this.” One of the things that we’re doing this year, is we’re building a whole new suite of developer tools to support the developer community.

The reason this is important to everyone is because we’re a relatively small company. We’re only 10 people, and we do this full-time. But there’s thousands of people and millions of members who are running on the membership platform. And so, we can’t possibly keep up from a development perspective with all the creative things that people want to do. So, by putting the developer tools out there, we’re essentially opening up the possibility for developers to make extensions to our software.

Tim: It’s almost like a crowdsource model in some respects.

Eric: Exactly. We’re basically going to be putting the power in the hands of the developers so that they can extend our software, and then we can pull back really and focus on the core of the software. It’s going to be a win-win, because there’s going to be a lot more functionality that comes out because basically, all these developers who are implementing things can do it themselves. And we can then focus on building more advanced core technologies that only we as a team could do, such as advanced business rules, more advanced reporting, all sorts of stuff. I mean, it’s a very exciting time. And so…

Tim: It sounds it.

Eric: Yeah. We’re looking forward to that.

Tim: Fantastic. Eric, and if people want to go and find out more about MemberMouse, it’s membermouse.com, yeah?

Eric: Yeah. Membermouse.com, and I would suggest subscriptionentrepreneur.com is my podcast. There’s a lot of talks on there. I mean, we’ve kind of brushed on before talking about, “Hey, if you’re doing a certain pricing model, you want to be committed.” Now, there’s a lot of nuance to everything. We have podcasts, episodes on pricing, just pricing and doing one-time pricing versus, like evergreen courses versus subscription-based models. So, there’s a lot of good things in there and there’s also interviews with people about building a brand and other stuff like that. I think that’s a really cool way just to start getting involved with this community but not having to pull the trigger right away to do anything.

Tim: Fantastic. Remind us of that address again.

Eric: It’s subscriptionentrepreneur.com.

Tim: Fantastic. We’ll include all of those links in the blogs and things that go with this.

Eric: Great.

Tim: Eric, it’s been fantastic speaking to you. I really appreciate you taking the time. And I look forward to seeing how MemberMouse continues to grow and develop, and all of those exciting projects that you’ve got involved with. Thanks for coming on to XpoNorth and speaking to us. We really appreciate it.

Eric: Yeah, my pleasure. I also want to mention one more resource, because if people are interested about this, obviously you and I can get back and have another conversation. But I do live office hours every Friday. So, if people have specific questions they have for me, they can jump on that, and join. Office hours is a great way to just show up. You don’t have to be a member. A lot of people who come are just like looking, researching, and you can ask any questions you have, whether it’s business-related, related specifically to the product. I make myself available live, pretty much every Friday. That’s another great resource.

Tim: Fantastic. Eric, thanks very much indeed for that really superb. Great to speak to you. I understand it’s snowy where you are, so it’s raining where I am as well. I think you got the best bargain.

Eric: Well, yeah. Snow or rain, it doesn’t matter. As long as the sun’s out, it’s good.

Tim: Cheers, Eric. Thanks a lot, mate.

Eric: All right. Thank you, Tim.


Thank you so much for listening to this entire episode. I sincerely hope you enjoyed and benefited from my conversation with Tim.

I’d also like to extend my sincere gratitude to Tim for having me on his show and allowing me to share our conversation with you.

To get links to all the resources we mentioned in this episode, head on over to SubscriptionEntrepreneur.com/148. There you’ll also find the show notes and a downloadable transcript of our conversation.

If you enjoyed this episode of our podcast, be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or Stitcher. We have a growing library of engaging episodes just like this one with many more to come.

Thank you for being here and I’ll see you next time!

Thanks for Listening!

Thank you so much for listening to this entire episode of our podcast. We hope you learned a lot from our conversation with Tim and are now walking away with some valuable insights you can implement in your business today.

As you listened to this episode, did any lightbulbs go off for you? Or, did any questions come up that you’d like answers to? Leave us a comment below and join in on our discussion. We’d love to hear from you.

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