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Episode 179: What It Really Takes To Grow A Profitable Pilates Membership with Emma Jory
pilates membership
Episode 179

What It Really Takes To Grow A Profitable Pilates Membership with Emma Jory

Podcast Guest

Emma Jory

Founder of ePilates Online

ePilates Online

"I was one of those people who thought, ‘build it and they will come.’ And that was a big mistake online. I was used to organic growth and wasn't used to actually marketing my business."

Imagine for a second that you’re an expert fitness instructor.

You’ve learned from the best in the world, taught in-person classes for a decade, and even own a successful brick-and-mortar studio.

But you’re totally burned out and ready for a change.

Instead of scaling your in-person teaching, you want to better leverage your time and energy by building an online business.

The only thing is that you’re brand-new to online entrepreneurship.

Where do you start? What do you do first?

These are the questions that our guest on today’s episode of the podcast faced 7 years ago.

Her name is Emma Jory and she’s the founder of ePilates Online.

Emma joins us on the show today to share the highs and the lows from her experience building her online pilates membership site.

Emma is a lovely person with a ton of valuable insights to share with you.

We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did.

Bonuses

While we don’t normally publish the video recordings of our podcast episodes (please let us know if you’d like to see more of these, though!), we had such an engaging on-camera conversation with Emma that we felt we had to share it with you.

If you’d like to watch and listen to this episode, you can do so here:

Highlights

1:26 Meet Emma Jory!
6:28 How Emma transitioned from a brick-and-mortar pilates studio to an online platform
15:20 A look at the way Emma creates, delivers, and markets her content
21:02 How Emma manages the time she spends with free vs. paid members
28:54 Emma shares some helpful pilates exercises for busy entrepreneurs
32:29 The advice Emma wishes she received when she started her online business
40:57 Where you can learn more about Emma

Full Transcript

Download Transcript

Eric: Hey, Emma, welcome to the show.

Emma: Hi Eric. Thank you so much for having me on. I’m excited to be here.

Eric: I’m excited to have you. And just as a starting point, can you tell us a bit about your background and give our listeners the 30,000-foot view of who you are, what you do?

Emma: Sure. So, I have been a pilates instructor for about seven to 10 years. I did the switch from corporate to doing something that I love and have never looked back, have been engrossed in this modality of exercise and or mind, body exercise, we call it for a long time now and added a lot of different trainings, like bar instructing and yoga, lots of different types of exercise, even personal training, but Pilates is sort of the one that really has stuck with me and felt like it’s my staple in my diet, if you like, like vegetables in our diet, and opened my own studio after a few years of teaching. I wanted to create a community where everyone could come and enjoy my passion and what I taught and somewhere I could help people. And then that’s evolved after a while to an online studio and it’s where I am today. So, loving still what I’m doing and learning every day. It’s great.

Eric: Awesome. Can you explain to me what Pilates is?

Emma: Sure. So, it is a combination of strengthening and flexibility movements that really help to allow the body to be more flexible and free, but also strong at the same time. So, we focus a lot on breath. So, it is something that helps you reconnect back to yourself a lot. It helps you feel calm, but also energized after. It’s focuses a lot on core strength. So, we talk often about core strength and people often think it’s just the abdominal muscles, but it’s actually the whole trunk of our body, if you like. It’s from kind of underneath the chin, from the neck right down to sort of underneath the bottom area, pelvic area. It includes our back and our glutes and all of that. So, it’s really important to have core strength in order to prevent injury and to stay strong and healthy. So, it’s a bit of a summary.

Eric: Great. Thank you. And you mentioned that it’s a mind, body exercise. So, there are also mental aspects that you go into.

Emma: Yeah. We really ask you to control the body if you like, and in fact that was what the original name of Pilates was. It was called Contrology.

Eric: Not a good name.

Emma: Yeah. No, definitely not. And it was Joseph Pilate who invented it. So, once he passed, then that became the name. Yeah. Yeah. Much better. So, yeah, it’s all about controlling the body. So, it does require attention. It does require you to focus in. What it does require you to actually be connected to your body. So, that’s definitely brings you into the present moment and you have to focus and also, we include the breath. So, we make sure you’re not holding the breath while you’re exercising. So, all those reasons it does help with the mind, body connection.

Eric: Now you mentioned that you were at a corporate job and then you quit to do this passion of yours. So, was the passion Pilates at that time or was it something more general and broad?

Emma: It was Pilates at the time, and that’s what actually really helped me make the switch. I trained in Pilates while I was still during corporate and then went full-time after leaving corporate and definitely was just always learning. I worked with personal trainers, but I worked with physios, osteos, different studios and it was like a sponge and took it all in, and then in the end decided to open my own studio, which was exciting.

Eric: Now, outside of the learning aspects, where was your passion solely in terms of, was it being a teacher? Was it being something else?

Emma: First of all, started as being a teacher. I think at the time I was a dancer when I was younger. I saw a lot of dances teaching Pilates and I’m thinking, oh, I could be doing that myself. I think it was a transition that I felt comfortable with. And then after that, it became way more, became once you really get into teaching Pilates, it’s about helping people. So, that is what I’ve always enjoyed in my life. I’ve come from hospitality background. I’ve also have been support in big companies to managing directors. And so, for me, the support and helping people has always been there and the love of that, and then that just transpired into Pilates. And one of the most rewarding parts is helping people recover from injuries or pain, and that’s one thing that Pilates does for very well with.

Eric: Now, you mentioned that you started first with a physical studio and then now you’ve had an online business for a long time. What was the main impetus that created the transition from having the physical studio to moving online?

Emma: Yeah, actually I had my physical studio for about seven and a half years, and I did go through a couple of phases of burnout. So, I was, as I said, very happy and very keen on helping people, and I took that to a different level where I wasn’t helping myself as much. So, I looked after staff of about 20 in my business and clients before myself. Even though I was in the health industry, I took my workaholic tendencies with me and burnt out a couple of times. So, for me, I went through a phase of knowing that I had to peel back at some point, which I did do because my partner at the time, we now married, he moved overseas and eventually I followed him. I sold my business and left Australia to now be in Malaysia. But during that transition and I traveled a lot.

So, I had to set up systems and processes to allow the business to still operate when I was away. So, that was a good way to remove myself and also take a step back. When I finally sold my business and move to Malaysia, I realized I needed to do something different. Not only did I not know how long we would be living in Malaysia, so whether I could set up another brick and mortar studio, but I also knew I didn’t want to go down burnout phase again. So, online was a very interesting option for me at the time. There wasn’t as many obviously as there are now, that was six, seven years ago, and the transition was a little challenging at first, but has definitely been worthwhile the journey.

Eric: So, if you would kind of compare the two, what are some things that maybe you miss about physical versus online and what are some things that you prefer about online versus physical?

Emma: Yeah. I do have a little bit of a mix. I still teach some face to face and nothing really compares to being able to connect face to face with people. I think that is the ultimate in terms of obviously human connection relationship, but definitely online has an amazing ability to help so many more people, and that was also part of my goal is how can I reach more people, because when I wanted to get back into teaching again, when I was living Malaysia, I realized I can only help so many people and that was a huge part of it. So, I’m helping people from America, from UK, Asia, Australia, and that’s priceless really to know that your knowledge and teachings can be shared to so many people and help so many people

Eric: Yeah, for sure. I’m just looking this up, because a few episodes ago I talked to a chef and there were similarities in his story where he was basically working physical kitchens for a long time. He opened up his own things, and then he also moved to an online platform to be able to help a larger group of people just getting to this point where you reach a certain level of, for lack of a better word mastery with your thing, that it becomes restrictive to have to do everything in the physical. And it kind of seems like it’s a natural evolution for people in all the different kinds of businesses to make that transition.

Emma: I agree. And actually, I listened to that podcast and I loved it and I resonated a lot with that. So, thanks for sharing that story, and I did want to reach out to, I can’t remember the man’s name now, but…

Eric: Jamie?

Emma: Yeah.

Eric: Jamie Raftery. And I was just trying to look up where, because I know he’s somewhere exotic too and I was like isn’t Malaysia?

Emma: Thailand. I think-

Eric: Thailand

Emma: … it’s Thailand.

Eric: Okay. Got it.

Emma: We’re neighbors. Yes.

Eric: Okay.

Emma: Yeah. And I agree. I almost think it’s unfair if we don’t go to the online space to help more people because I, and this is a decision I had to make as well when I moved to Malaysia. Do I start something new? Do I leave Pilates because how do I return back and not be burnt out yet I still have this desire to help a lot of people? For me to say no to a client is really difficult, and that’s why I burnt out in the first place. I want to help. So, I’ve got 17 years of knowledge that would go to waste if I don’t. So, for me that was part of the driver for sure. How can I share that for people not to miss out on that information?

Eric: And I think it’s important too as entrepreneurs we have to stick with our growth edge too. And sometimes burnout can be a symptom of we’ve lost some sort of alignment in terms of our true passion maybe, but I think it’s oversimplification. For me, passion is not a static thing. It’s an alignment, it’s a tuning in to guidance and resonance, and especially when we’re on journeys that are decades long, it can be easy to get into a place where maybe X years ago it was the new passion thing, it was the place for us, but then I struggle with this all the time. This calcification happens over time, it becomes habitual.

And then a lack of consciousness can come in, a lack of awareness and not tuning in. It just becomes, oh, this is just what I do. And then one day you’re like, wait, where’s the thing, where’s the spark? And I think part of that is being willing to listen to our guidance. And I think a lot of times a good indicator that we’re following it is that there’s some discomfort associated with following it. So, I wonder what you think about that first of all, and then also what were some of the things that were maybe uncomfortable for you when you started doing the online?

Emma: Beautifully said. It’s completely true and I think there was a time in those moments where I thought I would potentially give up Pilates, and I remember listening to one of my teachers saying that one day and I thought, how can you even contemplate it? I was new into it and wow, I just can’t envision it. And I completely get her because you really want to feel that passion, that level of passion that you once had or that you know you can have. And yeah, I fully agree with you. And it’s interesting because we do take a step back or we pivot slightly. We can reignite that. I took a little bit of time off and then as you know, went online and it also does help to get that spark back when you have that more energy, and like you say more alignment to yourself.

So, taking the time out for yourself, doing things you love, reconnecting again, in other ways I think can also help keep your spark. I’m also studying again. I think for me in our industry, we have to always continue our studies. We have to be learning new things, to teach our clients new things, and so when you can still find new things to add to your tool basket, I think that’s one way as teachers can keep that passion. I guess for me going online it was scary at first. It was one thing to teach a class to 10 to 70 people, I’ve taught at one point in one room, but to actually being exposed to the world, even though not everybody’s seeing you. At first, I think you think that they are, but not everyone sees you of that view, of that thought, but it’s a little bit daunting at first.

And for me, I had to overcome that imposter syndrome being seen, I guess, what will your peers think? Are you good enough? I think a lot of us go through that, but when you keep your goal in mind of helping people and when you do get feedback eventually that you are helping people, I think it does get a lot easier over time. I was one of those people who thought build it and they will come, and that was a big mistake online. I wasn’t used to actually marketing my business. I had organic growth in my brick and mortar studio. People would walk past, it was on street level. People would refer and also search in local area. So, that was a huge difference for me, is online marketing.

Eric: Okay. So, there are two tangents off of that and I’m curious about, the first one is one of the aspects of getting online, especially in something like your space where you’re teaching physical exercise of some kind. So, just to capture that, like the logistics around capturing that there’s a learning curve there like, okay, setting up the shots and editing and hosting the video. So, how did you navigate how you would actually deliver your content?

Emma: That was daunting at first, and I did actually get a videographer to help me. When I first started, there was really limited, I guess, phone videos that were quality. I should say cameras in phones. I was still using the DSLR camera. It was definitely the time when Instagram was still images, and so is Facebook. So, there was no live video. So, it was definitely still the old way. The videographer taught me how to edit and wasn’t very forgiving putting me on Adobe Premiere Pro straight away.

And I was quite struggling for a while and then in the end he said just keep pursuing because you’ll be very happy that you do. So, that ended up being a good move, even though that was painful at first. But yeah, the rest I still edit my own videos because sometimes I swap and change what I decide to do, and it might not be as easy for an editor. That’s definitely one thing I hope to be able to outsource at some point, but I’m quite fussy with my videos. So, I still do those and yeah, it was a big learning curve, the tech side definitely.

Eric: Yeah. It’s funny how when we have an experience being a teacher as our job, teaching something to somebody and then we also have to continue to learn, and oftentimes, although the words may be different and the subject matter may be different, we’re told the exact same things that we have to tell people who are our students. And to me it’s always just a really, I think a great learning opportunity because even though we can come to many times to a level of mastery with something, when you start something new, it doesn’t mean that you don’t go through all the same phases of growth. There’s that common thing of like, oh, I’m sure you have to tell this to people when you’re teaching stretches and stuff. It’s going to hurt now, but you’re going to be happy about it later.

Emma: Exactly. Totally. I fully agree. And knowing what the benefits are there on the other end is always good to be told and why we are doing it and the outcome will be worth it, for sure.

Eric: Yeah. Going back to what you were talking about before, there was another comment that you made that I want to ask you about where you said you were build it and they will come type of perspective. I was the same way when I started MemberMouse. And yeah, you come to this point where you realize actually I need to learn something to help get more visibility. So, what kinds of things did you end up learning and you found helpful for yourself to get visibility, because everybody who has an online business has a question about this?

Emma: Yes. So, true. So, I was fortunate enough after a while of not getting clients, I guess, then I realized, okay, I have to get a coach, I have to get someone to help me. I had some really good training in how to launch with a challenge and also how to use Facebook ads. So, I did start off by spending $100 on ads, but making back 200 or slowly building up every launch and adding onto that. So, in the end I’m spending thousands and thousands now. So, it is actually the only way that I launch and that I promote my business, it’s through ads, but with doing a free challenge. And then often I get people to purchase my online Pilate studio platform membership, but it is now I’m at a phase where I need to look at other options. I need to focus more on organic growth, which hasn’t been as bigger focus for now just because I learned one way and I’ve stuck to that over the last few years because it’s worked, so.

Eric: Yeah. Well, advertising can always be a great way to kick things off. Unfortunately, it can also really drain resources if it’s not executed in their right way.

Emma: Exactly. And I experienced my first launch that didn’t work. So, that’s why I’m now heading to organic growth. So, these little bumps in the road are sometimes good for, I think, reevaluating things and reassessing. So, yes, you’re exactly right.

Eric: Yeah. It’s just like we need to approach it from two angles. I mean, there’s stuff that’s going to help us in the short term, but then ultimately you want to be building something that’s going to help in the long term with minimal effort, which is the organic growth, and the foundation of that working is consistent effort over time. Like doing things consistently over time, so naturally it will have more life to it, but of course it doesn’t happen overnight.

Emma: Exactly. And I’m in a position now, whereas I think before I was just doing more intuitive work. So, I would be not really planning ahead as much, not in a position of, I guess, regular blogging. It was just when I thought of a topic I wanted to speak on. So, now I actually have a structure. I have a plan in place for my members, what’s happening for them every month, looking forward and ahead. So, it’s taken me a few years to get to this point, but I finally feel like I am operating in a more structured way.

Eric: And at this point you have hundreds of paid members and tens of thousands of free members in your multiple communities and membership site. So, how do you find that you’re spending your days and your weeks now when you have a much larger base of people interacting with you on a consistent basis?

Emma: It’s definitely a lot more time-consuming than it used to be and in a good way, because what I wished for, I received. I have a very, very active Facebook group and I have incredibly loyal group of clients that sometimes doing more Pilates than I am. They’re amazing. They post every day about their workouts. It’s quite incredible to watch. And now there’s just a lot of, I guess, customer service requirement for me. So, now I have a team in place and they really do an amazing job for me now, so that I can start to step back. I’m still in training mode, but that is getting a little bit easier. Yeah.

Eric: So, that’s definitely one of the areas that tend to be important, as a result of success is considering team building and knowing when you need to hire somebody, and then of course, once you know you need to do that, how do you do it and getting the experience of doing it. So, in your journey, how do you approach that determining when you need somebody and then how do you go about it?

Emma: So, I realize now I need to level up and remove myself from that day-to-day, even though I’m one to give free advice often I’m always there for my clients on the other end of the email or messages, but I know now that I definitely to take myself to the next level, have to handover and be comfortable to delegate once my team is trained. So, I’ve actually outsourced a virtual assistance to help me look after the customers and also things like fail payments, membership cancellations, that sort of thing. So, also things like design websites pages, all of that. So, those things that I used to do at the beginning, which I enjoyed but took me time, I know now that my time is definitely better spent on the bigger growing tasks, like blog writing, podcast interviews or marketing so, or content creation. So, yeah, I think just finding the right team members and being comfortable handing over to them is the next phase.

Eric: And have you had the experience at this time of how you get the satisfaction of giving to your students and them learning from you? Have you had any similar experiences with your team who work for you?

Emma: Yeah. So, I’ve got some great people who’ve been with me for actually a couple of years. So, I guess I’m handing more and more over to them all the time, and we have a lot of fun. I think that’s the key and they really enjoy being part of it, and I feel like they feel like it’s their business as well. They care so much, which is really very lucky to have some good people. I’ve had staff in the past and instructors, but also administration has helped in my brick and mortar studio, and I think it’s the same focus is to build a team where you all get along, where people are learning and they’re also inspired to work with you. I think that is the key.

Eric: Yeah. And I think that coming about, I think is a sign and a result of each entrepreneur’s personal evolution through their relationship to running a business. It’s kind of like think about this mind and body connection. It’s kind of like if there’s something at a balance, the decisions that we make sometimes about what we subject ourselves to say like what foods we choose to eat or what situations we choose to put ourselves in. Sometimes it can be suspect or it can be confused, or at least it’s not apparent that it’s helping us where we are saying that we want to go.

And I think one of the ways that I know being an entrepreneur has tested me is when we have to, especially invite other people into the business. This interface opportunity of making a decision about somebody like it, there’s a lot of nuance to, I think a maturity in terms of doing it right. And I know in the beginning, I know one thing that I would do is I would try to rush it. I would just take like the first person let’s say, because I just wanted it to be done, and then after doing that for so many times and realizing it didn’t work, I then learned that there needed to be a more methodical and attention put on it and working with this kind of like pressure, this internal sensation of like, if the person’s not right then being open, willing to let it go and keep doing the search. Yeah.

Emma: I fully agree. It’s been a really interesting time, because like you said, you definitely want to hand over some things and you want to do it quickly, we’re all very busy, and I definitely took some shortcuts. I got a referral and did an interview, go through the interview process the first time and was too lenient in many ways. This person came and went a few times and I kept accepting that person back. And I heard something the other day actually, which I now try and stick to. It’s hire fast and fire faster.

Eric: Okay.

Emma: I thought, okay, I really could have used that advice because I’m quite lenient and I give people the benefit of the doubt, but I guess when it’s such an important thing looking after your business and taking responsibility, you do need people beside you who are going to treat it the same and care as you. I think that’s what I’m always saying to my current team is thank you for caring. Thank you. I really appreciate you and I think you do know when you have the right people on board.

Eric: Yeah. And I think too that’s a result of ultimately you truly caring about it, because going back to the kind of food choices example, when you really care about your body, even if you’re in a state where you want something that’s not good for you, you still won’t do it, and ultimately your body will thank you for it. And it’s the same like those collection of choices that we make in our business, what we decide to invite in. What we have in our field of the business is ultimately going to contribute, it’s a manifestation of how we relate to the business and how much we do care about it. So, when it starts giving and reflecting back like that, it’s truly rewarding.

Emma: It’s so true. I love the analogy of food and taking care of our body, because that is exactly it, and the alignment. I do know when I am more aligned in myself in a good space and in my daily routine, that is when the business is at its best. So, it definitely is where we’re at in our own mental and physical space at the time is where the business usually is at, and that’s reflected for sure.

Eric: Now, since I have you captive here, would you mind if I ask you a practical question regarding Pilates?

Emma: Please, I’d love that.

Eric: So, something that I spent a lot of time doing and maybe people can relate to this is sitting at my computer, and I notice over time that there are these kind of pains that I will get from sitting at my computer. For example, right now the one that’s bothering me is under my hamstrings. If I’m sitting for too long, it’ll just start to feel like they’ll just get really tight and short and I have to go stretch. But I was wondering if one, do you have a way that you physically hold your body when you’re at the computer to best suit that experience? Do you have strategies that you use to help your body stay loose given that we have to put ourselves in this position?

Emma: Yes. Great question. And well done for taking breaks and stretching. It’s something that we can easily forget about if we’re too engrossed in the task at hand. I try my best to use a standing desk when I can, sometimes to give myself that little bit of a break. I do have a setup. It’s not actually a specific desk. It’s just a cabinet on top of my desk, but the option is there for me to stand up. I think that is a really good way to break up the tension that can form in the body.

Another thing that I also recommend and obviously a lot of people see this is sitting on a fitball just sometimes during the day, not for long periods because the body can’t sustain sitting up on that movable base of support for too long, but a fitball, if it’s set at the right height is going to give you a little bit more softness in the hips, in the pelvis. It’s going to allow you bit of movements. You can do some sort of hip circles and just release the body a little, because I think when we are seated and we are stagnant for so long, we are not actually allowing the body that freedom that really needs. So, there’re a couple of tips and my favorite kind of stretch is a glute stretch actually.

Eric: Which ones are the glutes?

Emma: The bottom muscles.

Eric: The gluteus maximus?

Emma: You got it. Gluteus maximus. Yep. That’s one of my favorite stretches to do, and I think it does help when we’re sitting for a long period. So, that’s a good quick go-to one.

Eric: Nice. Okay. And I would imagine that Pilates in general as a daily practice at some point helps to keep the body nimble in general, such that if you do end up having to sit for long periods of time, it’s not as much of a problem?

Emma: Exactly. So, we tend to have a little bit better posture if we are practicing Pilates. As I sit up tall, I’m talking to you. We do have a lot better support around our core, our trunk area. So, we can withstand holding this position a little bit longer once we are practicing Pilates regularly. So, it definitely has less effects on us when we are practicing regularly and we have to sit for long periods.

Eric: And do you have courses available that go into some of these exercises?

Emma: Yeah. So, my online Pilates studio membership is called the Core Fit Club, and this is actually the same program I launched with back in, or six of years ago and it’s still going strong, and this program actually helps people of all ages. I have members who are 18 right through to 79. I heard the other day one of my clients didn’t even realize she’s incredible. These clients work out regularly doing Pilates, yoga and barre. So, I have a mixture of classes available, but also, I offer tutorials. So, I believe that when you actually know why you’re doing an exercise or a routine or some kind of workout that you actually tend to do it more regularly. So, I think if you understand the why behind it, you’re more likely to continue. So, the Core Fit Club is available for people of all ages.

Eric: Now is there anything that you think would be helpful to more beginner entrepreneurs, like some advice that you might say to them when you were in a position like that, something that might have been helpful for you to hear?

Emma: So, starting out, I think is really important to recognize where you’re at and to not rush the journey. I think a lot of people tend to want to be further ahead than where they’re actually at. So, being okay to be a beginner is good, especially when it comes to your body because you don’t want to get injured, you want to respect your body and give it the time it needs to progress. Pilates is a journey and like any kind of physical training you do need to build up to get stronger. Yeah. I definitely would suggest that. And just to also choose something that you enjoy. I think that’s the important thing. There’s a lot of different styles of Pilates and yoga out there and a lot to different teachers and we all gravitate to something different. So, if you do, when you begin, start out, think, oh, this is not for me, don’t give up yet because you may find something else or someone else that may resonate more with you.

Eric: I like how you were answering the question about people starting with Pilates, but I asked you about starting with entrepreneurship, but the answer applies equally in both cases.

Emma: Ah, okay.

Eric: And it’s also funny because I just pulled up something I wrote to a friend of mine today about journeys and starting on journeys, because essentially, they sent me something where like I just did this thing and I wanted this to happen and it’s not happening. Why isn’t it happening? I said, all journeys share similar qualities. There are many examples, but one is, one, plant a seed. Two, nurture the seed. Three, the seed grows into a plant. Four, plant bears fruit. Five, harvest the fruit. When we’re trying to get the ball rolling on something, it can be natural to get frustrated or impatient. This looks like planting a seed, watering it once and then expecting fruit the next day. Nothing works this way. If the fruit, the outcome is not what you want, the question isn’t what am I doing wrong? It’s more helpful to reflect honestly where you are in the process of growth.

The question about what’s the next step is relating to your larger journey. What is the next step for me to take? The answer is usually the most obvious thing, and sometimes so obvious we miss it. The mistake can be to try to understand how the next step will lead to the final goal. Point is, the essence is like there’s this, I like this kind of looking up plants and how they grow and when they’ll give something up to us as a mechanism for how we can reflect on where we’re at in relation to a process, because it is true, most of us want to do step one and then immediately harvest.

Emma: So, true. Absolutely, and that was powerful. I love that. I’d love to read that. I find that really inspiring and something to put up on the wall perhaps because we can often forget. Like I mentioned before, I had my first launch that didn’t work and it can be very disheartening and especially when it comes to losing money, but I’m wise enough now to know that, that’s just a bump in the road and it’s not a bad thing always that we have those moments so that we can relearn and go back to the drawing board. But yeah, I think it’s about the journey, isn’t it? It’s about the process and who we are becoming in that process, and it’s not always about collecting the fruit.

Eric: Right. And I think about being in the process is like you were saying it, I think the more mature person who’s been through processes and recognize this, it’s just about using discernment to interpret what something means in a given moment, because I find so many times when I was more youthful in relation to things that I would just be misinterpreting what I was experiencing and I’d be like, oh, that happened, that means this horrible thing, or that happened. That means this horrible thing. But now I’m just like, no, I try not to focus a lot on understanding anything because it’s been my experience, the things that have worked for me were not my plan. So, I just go along with it.

Emma: That’s true. I agree. I’ve experienced that before and yeah, you have to be ready for the unexpected, don’t you? And just be very open to different things coming your way and pivoting and surprise is always. I agree.

Eric: Yeah. And not thinking that something, because I’m sure we’ve all had the experience where we thought in a moment that one thing was bad and wasn’t going to help us reach a goal, but ultimately when we look back in retrospect, it might have been a turning point or it might have been something that helped us maybe because we learned something, who knows what, and the opposite can also be true where we think something’s good but then in retrospect it’s like, oh wait, that took me down this whole path of darkness to a dead end that I had to escape from.

Emma: That’s right. Exactly. I love all those analogies and way of reflections because we are getting busy in our journey. We can sometimes not stop to think as in depth. I really love these conversations.

Eric: Yeah. Well, the thing is we always want to know, is this going to work? What do I need to do? Which are all good questions? But I think it really did a number on me when I was starting my business, living in that world where I would just be constantly like, when is stuff going to happen? When is stuff going to happen? What do I need to do? What do I need to do? And it just, that kills passion, if anything else.

Emma: It really does, and comparison-itis is also another one. Not looking at somebody else’s journey who is further along to ours is another one to be comfortable in the growth, in the time that it takes us. And yeah, knowing that we all have a different path as well, don’t we, I think is also a good one to remember that we all come to the table with different experiences and we have to learn different things. So, knowing that I think is also reassuring. It’s not a straight line.

Eric: Yeah. I know as an artist I learn a lot from how I approach being an artist and how I compare myself with others and how I observe myself going through that process, because sometimes I’ll listen to other people’s music and I’ll be like, oh wow, that’s amazing. And it doesn’t stop there and then I’m like, oh well, mine’s not, not as good as that, or I could never write that. And then that leads to self-doubt and this place of loss of inspiration because now it’s the comparison. That’s when I’m in the kind of the dark side of it. When I’m in the light side of it and I listen to something that’s nice I’m like, wow, that’s really nice. It’s so great that we can all be artists and we can all create good things and they’re all good and that’s it.

Emma: I know. I totally, totally feel the same. And yeah, it’s interesting when we’re in that good space how we can accept it. And so, it goes back to the whole alignment, doesn’t it? It’s when we are feeling aligned, when we are feeling good in ourselves, our true nature, which is love and it’s all about trusting ourselves and following our intuition. So, all of those things seem to show up when we are in that good space and we don’t have the fears and the doubts as much. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, it’s all very beautiful. Well, I’m very grateful that we had this opportunity to talk and that these things have kind of borne fruit out of our conversation, these beautiful things to remember so.

Emma: So, true. This has been wonderful. Thank you.

Eric: Yes. So, as we wrap up, can you share where listeners can learn more about you?

Emma: Yeah. I’d love to support anyone who needs help with their stretches during their day while they’re doing their long hours at their desk. I can be found at ePilates Online. So, that’s E for Emma or electronic, it started out, but everyone’s now online. So, ePilatesonline.com and there’s a lot of information there. They can try out some free classes. Your listeners, there’s a free quarantine Pilates pack which I had available during lockdown and it’s still there. So, they can enjoy a free pack of 20 classes anytime they want to sign up to that. It’s free for them. And yeah, I’d love to help out anyone who would like to learn more about Pilates.

Eric: Great. Thank you. And also, when your body feels good, your mind will feel good too, which will help with your business and everything else.

Emma: That’s a nice slogan. I might have to steal that one.

Eric: Go ahead. You just put an E at the front of it for Eric.

Emma: Yeah.

Eric: Great. Well, thank you so much, Emma. I really appreciate you coming by.

Emma: Thank you for your time. I love chatting. Thanks Eric. Bye.

Eric: Bye.

OUTRO:

Thank you so much for listening to my entire conversation with Emma.

I hope you are feeling inspired and excited about what’s possible for your life and business.

Many thanks to Emma as well for coming on the show and opening up about the highs and the lows of her entrepreneurial journey.

To get links to all the resources we talked about in this episode, you can head on over to SubscriptionEntrepreneur.com/179.

There you’ll also find the complete show notes and a downloadable transcript of our conversation.

If you enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more engaging interviews with successful entrepreneurs, experts, and authors, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or Stitcher.

We have a growing library of engaging episodes with many more to come.

Thanks for being here and we’ll see you next time!

Thanks for Listening!

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of our podcast. We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Emma and are walking away feeling excited and inspired about building your business.

As you listened to this episode, did any lightbulbs go off in your head? Did any questions come up that you’d like to ask us? Leave us a comment below and join in on our discussion. We’d love to hear from you.


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